The West Wing (TV Series) Five Votes Down (1999) User Reviews

What he pays me for.

[kickdoor02 · 8/10 · 15 April 2011]

This episode endeared me more to the characters. I love how they fight so hard for a bill that they know isn't even what they really want, because they have to save face and get what they can. Just seems so fruitless, its hard not to feel for them. Then they don't even get to enjoy what little victory there would've been thanks to Hoynes(really speaks to how upset Leo was that he would still go to the VP's AA meeting after that). I swear, after five minutes in politics I wouldn't have a single strand of hair left to yank out in frustration. Just makes me wish they could get a real solid win. And as Josh said,

"Sam, LBJ never would've taken this kind of crap from Democrats in congress. He would've said, 'you're voting my way in exchange for which I might remember you name, pal'."

I wish the other dems. would just get behind their administration. They've made it clear that Bartlet does what he wants whether that goes against party politics or not, but he also always does what he thinks is right. That's better than a Pres. who does something he knows or feels is wrong just because it's what is expected from a democrat. As when Leo is telling Rev. Al in the first episode that Bartlet went around the country trying to convince teen girls not to get abortions, I strongly disagree with that, but I respect him for not acting like a machine that just spits out a leftist's agenda. Josh's meetings with Katzenmoyer and Wick were great though,

"President Bartlet's a good man. He's got a good heart. He doesn't hold a grudge...that's what he pays me for."

"You know, I realize as an adult not everyone shares my view of the world, and with an issue as hot as gun control I'm prepared to accept a lot of different points of view as being perfectly valid, but we can all get together on the grenade launcher! Right?"

Leo's personal stuff brought the episode down a little, just never cared for romantic relationships in my dramas, but the in office scenes were great. Coming off the excellence of A Proportional Response might have also taken some of the shine off this one, but there really are no bad episodes of Sorkin's West Wing.

THE WEST WING: SEASON 1, EPISODE 4: Five Votes Down

[dalydj-918-255175 · 9/10 · 17 July 2023]

THE WEST WING: SEASON 1, EPISODE 4: Five Votes Down Directed by: Michael Lehmann Written by: Story by : Lawrence O'Donnell, Jr. And Patrick Caddell Teleplay by : Aaron Sorkin

This episode begins with one of the series greatest one shot walking and talking scenes and this sets up for a truly incredible episode. This episode shows how well balanced the show can be when it deals with the political and personal lives of this shows characters.

John Spencer has been a great supporting player on the show so far and he takes centre stage in this episode with some upsetting personal moments for his Leo character. Leo struggling with attention he doesn't pay to his wife because of his political ambitions is one of the first instances on the show when to reality of these peoples life's comes in to effect them.

The episode really is upsetting and a lot of this has to go to Spencer for how he plays the scenes opposite his wife but also the immediate aftermath when he sits down with the Vice President who he is not the biggest fan of.

This episode was a needed one as it managed to show the unspoken part of a political career which is the people you leave behind to pursue such a career. An effecting episode which earned John Spencer his first Emmy nomination.

Sausages and Laws

[Aldanoli · 10/10 · 24 December 2016]

"Five Votes Down" gets "The West Wing" into the nitty-gritty of the legislative process for the first time -- but certainly not the last. In some ways, the episode's theme is revealed in the opening scene, as President Bartlet regales a supportive dinner crowd with jokes and political promises -- especially to pass gun control legislation -- while standing beneath a banner proclaiming "Practical Idealism." It's the introduction to an excellent episode that reveals much about both politics and the lives of the main characters.

While some have taken the banner behind Bartlett as a political "sliding scale" -- that sometimes one must be practical, while at other times idealistic -- the slogan can also be read as a hopeless oxymoron, somewhat like the political motto in "Veep," namely, "Continuity with Change." The late Mario Cuomo (who knew a thing or two about politics) put it more gracefully: "We campaign in poetry. We govern in prose." It's the paradox of democratic politics: to get elected, one must take out mortgages with factions and special interests. Getting elected that way, however, leaves little political capital to accomplish the causes and goals for which one presumably got elected in the first place -- something the White House staff learns in this episode.

And so, even as Pres. Bartlett is charming the crowd, word comes that they are actually five votes short to pass that gun control bill. So, over a 2:00 a.m. late dinner/early breakfast of Chinese food in take-out cartons (something that, apparently, never happens in the real White House -- for security reasons), the senior staffers try to figure out who the defectors are and what it will take to get them back in line.

The first of two subplots line is equally gut-wrenching -- even as Chief of Staff Leo McGarry (John Spencer) deals with the possible consequences of losing this vote, he discovers that the enormous commitment to his job (especially the many, many late nights) has cost him his marriage. And in the second subplot, Toby Ziegler's annual financial disclosure reveals that he made a 2,500% profit on a stock purchase that could violate federal securities law.

Toby's financial problems are played mostly for comic relief, but the first two stories entwine in some interesting ways. Leo admits that, if forced to choose between his marriage and his job, he'll (regretfully) pick the latter. And then, having twice clashed with Vice-President Hoynes in earlier episodes, Leo finds himself needing the vice-president's help to get that fifth vote. Seeing Leo's stricken face just moments after Leo has learned that his wife wants a divorce (and, truly -- no one ever did "stricken" better than John Spencer), Hoynes doesn't exact retribution for Leo's earlier mistreatment of him; instead he's gracious and supportive.

This also gives Hoynes, who knows of Leo's alcoholic past, the chance to invite Leo to Hoynes' own, special AA meetings -- provided discreetly for politicians whose attendance at regular AA would be impossible. It's a lovely scene that allows some of the characters' back-stories to be revealed without fanfare, while also giving new perspectives on both characters. (And indeed, despite his genuine concern for Leo, Hoynes has a political trick still up his sleeve, adding yet another layer to his characterization.) But perhaps it's Leo himself who best summarizes this episode, in a line usually attributed to Otto von Bismarck: "Sausages are like laws. It's better not to see them being made."

Practical idealism, indeed.

So Intricate

[Hitchcoc · 10/10 · 2 January 2021]

The beauty of this show was the amazing insights into the political world, the bluster and the deal making that is part of their world. Bartlet is trying to get a mediocre gun bill passed and the usual back slapping and quid pro quo goes on. We also see the human element here as Leo has his wife leave him because of his all consuming political drive. Very sad episode and very real.

Martin Sheen

[GoldenGooner04 · 10/10 · 24 September 2022]

Should have been a Grade A Actor, never quite made it. But this is "his show" without him it would not work. He is Simply Brilliant, the speeches. I am late to the party on this show, very late like 22 years :-( But better late then never The scenes without Martin are a 7 with him they are a 10 Rob Low I'm not a big fan, as for the others, take or leave them. I don't know if this was written for Martin, but it fits him like a glove I think they should bring it back with Donald's president run, now that would be rather entertaining :-) Mind you move to 2024 and who knows if he will be back ????

Don't talk about guns if you don't know what your talking about!

[sterlingatt264 · 3/10 · 30 April 2022]

Love the character development and what seems to be a fairly accurate representation of how politics works but....

Every time this show brings up anti gun rhetoric they start pouting off statistics and identification of different guns that makes absolutely no sense. And what in the blue hell is a 40 gauge?????