Foundation (TV Series) The Mathematician's Ghost (2021) User Reviews

It's obviously going to be slow going...that's not bad

[gee-15 · 6/10 · 7 October 2021]

So we spend more time with the Cleons and more time on Terminus. The questions raised in episode 2 are not answered as yet. But we do spend time with the character introduced at the beginning, Salvor Hardin, who I find interesting to watch. Maybe I missed something but it's not clear to me why she's an "outsider." There also seems to be some tension with her mother but I don't understand that either. This may be an inherent weakness with the series (which may or may not be resolved). The writers have introduced narrative elements without wholly explaining them. It reduces the enjoyment when you keeping going to yourself "now why is this happening?"

I would like to make a brief mention of the "book vs. Series" issue. Some want the series to be closer to the book and others perhaps weary of references to a book or books they haven't read. My own feeling is I'm fine with the books being a starting point and the writers going in their own directions but I feel some thematic integrity needs to remain. Currently, I'm struggling to see some of Asimov's original themes in the series. But in the end, it would be impossible to create a series that would make everyone happy. For right now, I'm still interested.

Interesting sci-fi... but is this Foundation?

[tomatdotcom · 8/10 · 5 October 2021]

I was fascinated by the first episode of this show, because it encapsulated my favourite elements of the first book, throwing you into the heart of a war you didn't even know was happening under the raised eyebrow of madman/genius Hari Seldon (played to absolute perfection by Jared Harris - his casting alone is reason enough for this show to exist for me). Sure, it got a little wobbly with the weird time jumping and calling the narration cliche and unnecessary would be generous. But... potential.

The next episode really threw me though, if only because I truly do not recognise the Foundation novels in them. Where the first episode skimmed along the first story, the next was a total departures from the established narrative, to the point that they actively violate key plot points in the books, like no pyshcohistorian being allowed to travel to Terminus. More so than just being a new interpretations, it felt like a mildly unnecessary (but visually gorgeous) fan fiction.

This episode though... this episode hooked me. The annoying narration is still there, the strange treatment of established narrative is still there and the fanfic vibe is holding strong, but... I think I'm on board. The genetic dynasty is one of the most interesting science fiction concepts I've seen in years, and I love that the show has committed to showing the full emotional and social ramifications of such a program. The pathos and empathy it allows me to feel for the monarchical figures of this universe is something no other fiction has ever achieved, or even tried to achieve.

The Hardin stuff is a little strange, and I don't love that we keep getting Chosen One narratives written into a story that's specifically about systems and not people, but it's keeping me functionally entertained and I do want the mystery of Terminus and the Foundation to fully unravel, a feeling that reminds me of when I first read the books.

So I'm interested. This isn't the show I hoped I would be getting, or even what I feared it might be. But it *is* interesting. It's grappling with fun ideas on a huge scale and telling a story that's (apparently) nine seasons long. I'm curious and engaged. Foundation; let's see what you've got.

A quick note at the end, however. Hearing David Goyer speaking about the Vault on the podcast made me slightly nervous, because, 'even readers of the books don't know what's inside it'. I am truly, truly sick of the instinct modern television has developed of being more interested in surprising its audience than of telling a good story and I truly hope that the Vault serves the same purpose it did in the original story and doesn't get overly complicated purely for the sake of being different to how it originally appeared.

This episode is also the second occasion where a main character from the (very male) original material is gender-flipped into a woman. This is a fantastic change that livens up the dynamics of the show, and makes for more interesting depictions of the characters. However, it's also the second time (of two) where that female character is immediately made to have sex with a man as an establishing glimpse into their characterisation. It's demeaning to the cause of championing women, and women of colour, as the heroes of these stories and I hope it isn't a trend that continues any further.

I'm intrigued enough to keep watching

[wyldemusick · 8/10 · 4 October 2021]

Look, one thing the book absolutists aren't being honest about is that a reason it's hard to bring the Foundation series to screen is that the books a) weren't books, but stories ranging from short to novella length, and b) they range over hundreds of years, weave through constant character refreshes, and hop around locations. Even Foundation And Empire, with the Mule at its heart, does this. Plus c) Asimov stretched the timeline even more with sequels and prequels and d) complicated things with even more cast refreshes by tying in his Empire and Robots series - Demerzel is a bolt on to Foundation, and didn't occur in the original.

Because of the anthological nature of the source, a lot of work is being done to craft a narrative. To stay at all true to the original works they're going to have to do time jumps - frankly, so far this is nothing. Plus even Asimov failed to actually follow his timeline to the Second Empire, while the authorized "3Bs" additions went the prequel route. So it's likely that this series will, if it goes all the way to the Second Empire, cover 15,000 years of galactic history, and how it very nearly goes horribly wrong over and over.

Yes, this episode is slow, we're missing some information, and it's a bit baffling - but trust me: it's setting things up. Plus the Cleons are an important marker - aside from providing a thread of continuity by being sort of unchanging as cast refreshes occur with the time jumps, we are seeing the decline of the Empire through their gradual degradation - the clones aren't living as long, it seems, and fade fast, plus they are losing connection with their world, hence Brother Dawn 35 years on erasing the living mural that the Dusks seemed to have an affinity for. Empire is in decline; the center cannot hold.

Wasted potential

[nikolay-45680 · 1 October 2021]

They seriously wasted Jared Harris and all the other actors just to do a complete swap of the characters and a ~40 year time jump after only two episodes. Harris' character was killed off in a stupid way with no motive and Gaal got spaced and we are never shown what happens to her. Why should I care for any of the new characters when I don't know any of them?

Its not as bad as they want you to think

[alexleizerovichcoaching · 7/10 · 2 October 2021]

It seems that most of the low reviews here are from the book fans. I don't read such books, but I watch a lot of Sci-fi. And I found this to be a good episode.

I actually liked the time jumps it gave the series more depth. What was weird is the part of brother dusk ascension. It supposed to be 19 years after the bombing. But the young boy(that was 6-8) now looks exactly like brother day looked 19 years ago. And Brother day now looks the same as brother dusk looked 19 years ago. This makes no sense.

Another thing is the continuity with episode 2 ending. There is no explanation as to what happened there and why. But I think they are saving it for later. Overall good episode although slow at times.

I totally get the negativity around this one

[GabrielSymes · 7/10 · 3 October 2021]

I've read the books and loved them. I really hope that this episode, which was a bit dull, is setting the scene to for what will come.

Good, but not for Purists

[GwydionMW · 8/10 · 1 October 2021]

They have changed a lot. I fear that the elegantly dishonest Lord Dorwin has been written out, though we might still see him.

Entirely new is an independent trader from a neighbouring kingdom. This might be the ancestor of Independent Traders loosely linked to the Foundation. These matter in later stories and have to be there in later seasons, if they happen.

And we have more on the Imperial Clones.

A SciFi for serious adults

[Asimovo · 7/10 · 2 October 2021]

This sci-fi is not made for teenagers, star wars, or star trek fanboy's, it's for serious sci-fi adults with an adult approach to Aimov's foundation works.

Slow buildup, I love it, story driven good solid adult sci-fi, finally!

This has a great potential

[k-25016 · 9/10 · 1 October 2021]

Book readers are malding and rating it 1/10 because it isn't adapting the source materials 100%.

As a non-reader for the books, this show is interesting with it's new concepts we've never seen on other sci-fi shows. Great introduction to the show, i hope they continue with the same level as the first 3 episodes.

Careful now

[bakepies · 7/10 · 5 October 2021]

I dont know the books so the series and this episode is fine to me. The series can now drift into greatness or the abyss. As a neutral viewer its unclear to me where the show is headed. The story development is a bit all over the place and this episodes first half is not linked to the second half much. It provided some understanding tho regarding the empire.

But Why

[johnnyoflynn · 4/10 · 1 October 2021]

I don't mind that it's different from the books, but the pacing and tone of this show is just so weird, and while it may come together in the end, I'm having a hard time understanding a lot of the decision making here.

I guess my biggest issue is the how often the show stops to tell us how the protagonists are special or gifted in some way. Foundation is a story that almost requires any adaptation to add a bunch of new material, but how do you take a story about people being clever and adapt it as a magical chosen one story? Changes are fine, but it's almost like they're going out of their way to remove the reasons people enjoy these stories.

I actually kind of dug the brother dusk sections, but I'm really struggling with almost everything on Terminus. And was it just me, or was Leah Harvey pretty bad in this episode.

I don't think the script is doing her any favors, but there were several times in this episode where her delivery was distractingly clunky. Here's hoping it was just an off day.

I'm sorry to be so negative. It's not a bad show, it just seems to be missing the point. And that's kind of a bummer.

Starting to get interesting

[calle-traneberg · 9/10 · 1 October 2021]

Finally I'm starting to feel something for this whow, still not convinced their changes to the source-material was well grounded, but atleast there are some interesting ideas and you start to get to know the characters.

Oh boy, it is going downhill.

[matrioshka-brain · 2/10 · 2 October 2021]

I don't know how Asimov Este allowed it to happen.

Difference between book and show is fine as long as the story makes sense, plot is coherent and engaging. But here you will find none of it. I don't even know about any of the characters to care about, there abrupt jumps in story.

AND FOR THE GOD'S SAKE PLEASE DON'T FORCE CHEAP ROMANCE IN EVERYTHING, EVERY EPISODE. Creative choices are fine but not at the cost of story and engagement.

I'm quite lost - and about to give up on this series

[KarinStrata · 9 October 2021]

Haven't read the books, and I'm trying to follow the story as it is presented - but honestly, I'm quite lost. Due to all the time jumps I have no clue where we're at.

Characters carefully set up in episode 1 and 2 are suddenly long dead in episode 3. Why in heaven's name would you give a back story to Gaal in ep 1 when she's already history and has left the stage in ep 3? Then, in ep 3, we get new, unexplained enemies on top of it all, while the main plot is still jumping all over the place.

I was very much looking forward to this series, but it's a major disappoitnment. The writers seem to be more concerned with the visuals than they are with the story - or they asume that the story is k ow to the audience, which is a major error.

For god sake,all the scenes from the first book are in the show, they just put new concepts and new sequences that don't compromise the plot of the books.

[arthuroliveira-65367 · 9/10 · 1 October 2021]

I expected changes and new concepts in this apple adaptation, because the stories in the first books are to short to make a series of 8 or 10 episodes. Clearly, they have to create new concepts and characters to the show.

And the new material it´s great and interesting.

And i am suprise that every scene (by far) in episodes contain all scenes of the books 1.

The first book it´s great because of your ideas, world construction and concepts, but not for character development, like Gaal or Salvor.

Yes, the series it´s great. The people of today are very fanatical about fidelity and understanding of changes in adaptations of books and comics.

Giving it a 10 to compensate for all the whiny ones out there!

[jlev-gestion · 10/10 · 2 October 2021]

In reality this episode was an 8 for me. I have read the books but it's been so long that I do not have the emotional attachement to it that some other viewers have.

I do not compare this show to the books, I compare it to all the other sci-fi series out there, and so far this show is far superior to most of them.

There is absolutely no way this show, any episode of this show, ever deserved a one. The acting is very good, the story is epic, the art direction is absolutely mesmerizing. This is extremely well done hard sci-fi!

Narrative doesn't work

[pernix · 5/10 · 1 October 2021]

I don't have any problem with book adaptations.

I don't have any problem with male book characters turning female.

But I have problems with confused narration going back and forth hundred of years in few minutes and constant voice-overs explains us what's happening because the story by itself is incomprehensible.

It's clear the authors do not trust Asimov material enough, and that's the real pity.

Excellent episode

[chavedomundo · 9/10 · 2 October 2021]

This episode is great, despite not following the book.

The first 20 minutes are excellent, the music, the photography and the script. Rarely will shows develop on the subject of death and this one did it with mastery. When we think of empires like Rome, people rarely distinguish the different 15+ emperors, it's all caesars. The clones idea in this show is very clever and communicates that lineage very well.

Salvor Hardin is a completely different character here than in the books. However easy it is to criticize what we're watching, it'd be extremely hard to create something appealing to the masses if they were following the book to the letter. Asimov's books sound more like history material than a novel at points, and it isn't until we get closer to the mule that things start getting really exciting.

I read the books and understand the necessity to change material to fit it on 1h-length episodes. I have to be ok with that if I want to enjoy the show. I let go of the idea that anything on TV will be an exact match to what's in books.

I think the low rating is due to diehard fans wishing to see on the screen the exact depiction of how they imagine each character on the book. That's just impossible.

I was really let down when they revealed Demerzel was a robot on epi 2, given we only learn tha in the fourth book, but now I understand why, and it was a necessity for the TV: without it how would they have shown them (he? Her?) accompanying the emperors for centuries? The entire thing would fall flat.

No clue what this episode is about.

[michaeloneillire · 2/10 · 3 October 2021]

I loved episode 1 and 2. I don't care if it's not the same as the books as long as it's good. 1 & 2 were.

Episode 3 started off ok showing how the emperor's move along. But the stuff on terminus was all over the place.

Episode 2 ended in a cliffhanger. No mention of it in episode 3. WTF.

No logic

[oztoprak · 2 October 2021]

Stopped watching when they chose to nuke the Star Bridge instead of salvaging it for materials. I expect future people to be better at recycling, not worse.

Planting Seeds for Future Payoff

[seal-28727 · 9/10 · 2 October 2021]

To be honest I never liked the novel Foundation. I preferred Foundation and Empire much more. So unlike the people giving low scores for the parts not in the book, I actually loved the new stuff in this particular episode. I think the frustration is that this episode did not advance the plot of the story from the perspective of the novel. But I think a key character was greatly developed in this episode and the show is planting the seeds for payoff in a future episode. To me Foundation is a book of concepts/ideas, it is not character driven and a direct translation would not work on TV today. Therefore episodes like this are important for establishing the world/plot of this new material. It's too soon to judge if this new material will work out or not, but if it's too painful for you to watch due to your closeness with this material maybe it's best for you to drop the show and come back to it after it's over or a season has passed. You are judging a large painting with eyes a centimeter away instead of a few steps/feet away.

People need to give a show a chance

[pjack23 · 8/10 · 4 October 2021]

I rarely post reviews, but reading through the reviews for this episode, it's ridiculous how they can be rating so low after THREE episodes.

A show that is based on the Foundation novels needs to be given a chance to grow, as these are not marvel movies packed with action, this is Sci-fi.

What I find most incredible are people that are criticizing the time jumps. Let's just say they are in for a bad surprise with Foundation, as the books do precisely that, and that is one of the main reasons the books have taken so long to be made into TV/Movie.

Additionally things like "wasting" Jared Harris... Seldon never makes it to Foundation, had they done that, you completely change the books.

All I would say is too keep your mind open while watching this episode, knowing there is the full season still to come for all character development. The scope and CGI are really quite incredible, let's see where the show takes us.

It's difficult to do it worse

[javierfontcuberta · 1/10 · 1 October 2021]

I don't really understand anything... The only things similar to books... Are the names. They broke completely the foundations of the story written by Asimov. They could just have created a new sci-fi show, but not totally corrupt the "Foundation books". I'm deeply disappointed.

I'm giving it a chance

[nuprovince · 8/10 · 2 October 2021]

I know that the first few episodes of any large scale tv series are always about establishing, for lack of a better word, a foundation, and building characters. Episode 3 is too early to tell what they are building. And overall I am enjoying it, some wasted potential with Jarred Harris to be honest but I'll make my final decision after watching the full story.

Writers that don't understand science and technology

[anonim-5 · 2/10 · 2 October 2021]

While some of the deviations from the book could have been good (the cloning of the emperor as a symbol for an ossified ruling class), the overall writing seems to just be getting worse. Characters and plotlines just make no sense, and the disappointment with what could have been done is reaching GOT Season 8 levels.

Maybe the worst for me is seeing foundation members argues if they should preserve water clock or sun dial technology. Only writers that have no understanding of science and technology could think of something like this, as they just pulled whatever they remembered from a high school project they once did.

Simple technology can always be reinvented by humans, if they have a scientific and engineering driven mentality, something everyone making these movies is missing.